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	<title>Comments on: Freidersdorf v. Riehl</title>
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	<link>http://federalistpaupers.com/index.php/2009/06/19/freidersdorf-v-rihl/</link>
	<description>Constitution Fanboys</description>
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		<title>By: Geoff</title>
		<link>http://federalistpaupers.com/index.php/2009/06/19/freidersdorf-v-rihl/comment-page-1/#comment-216348</link>
		<dc:creator>Geoff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Jun 2009 06:39:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://federalistpaupers.com/?p=3947#comment-216348</guid>
		<description>VinceP1974 -- If you go by the false dichotomy of &quot;no empire&quot; versus &quot;enslaving the entire world,&quot; then of course America has no empire.  At that point, though, you&#039;re really not saying anything.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>VinceP1974 &#8212; If you go by the false dichotomy of &#8220;no empire&#8221; versus &#8220;enslaving the entire world,&#8221; then of course America has no empire.  At that point, though, you&#8217;re really not saying anything.</p>
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		<title>By: VinceP1974</title>
		<link>http://federalistpaupers.com/index.php/2009/06/19/freidersdorf-v-rihl/comment-page-1/#comment-216347</link>
		<dc:creator>VinceP1974</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Jun 2009 05:28:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://federalistpaupers.com/?p=3947#comment-216347</guid>
		<description>One of my pet peeves is the misuse of &quot;Empire&quot;

Empire is when one State has de facto sovereignty over foreign/overseas nations / states/ countries / peoples and usually, is occupying them militarily

The US and its people have never sought to do so to another country/people outside the context of subduing a state under the control of war-making dictators.

To make Empire into a metaphor and then strip the metaphor of its metaphorness and elevate it to a real description is just plan wrong.


If we were an Empire, then why are nations allowed to negatively react to Congress&#039; &quot;Buy America&quot; mandate in the Impoverishiolus Bill?

If we are an Empire, then why must we beg Saudi Arabia to increase oil production when the cost gets high?

If we are an Empire then why is Tim Geithner making a fool of himself in China telling them lies about the Obama and Fed plan to destroy the Dollar?

If we&#039;re an Empire why did Russia invade Georgia, North korea set off nuclear tests, Iran enrich Ur , Chavez seize US Company asssets.


What  a strange and bizarre Empire this is.  What is more strange is people so arrogant as to regard other people in other nations to be essentially enslaved by America and having no power of thier own .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of my pet peeves is the misuse of &#8220;Empire&#8221;</p>
<p>Empire is when one State has de facto sovereignty over foreign/overseas nations / states/ countries / peoples and usually, is occupying them militarily</p>
<p>The US and its people have never sought to do so to another country/people outside the context of subduing a state under the control of war-making dictators.</p>
<p>To make Empire into a metaphor and then strip the metaphor of its metaphorness and elevate it to a real description is just plan wrong.</p>
<p>If we were an Empire, then why are nations allowed to negatively react to Congress&#8217; &#8220;Buy America&#8221; mandate in the Impoverishiolus Bill?</p>
<p>If we are an Empire, then why must we beg Saudi Arabia to increase oil production when the cost gets high?</p>
<p>If we are an Empire then why is Tim Geithner making a fool of himself in China telling them lies about the Obama and Fed plan to destroy the Dollar?</p>
<p>If we&#8217;re an Empire why did Russia invade Georgia, North korea set off nuclear tests, Iran enrich Ur , Chavez seize US Company asssets.</p>
<p>What  a strange and bizarre Empire this is.  What is more strange is people so arrogant as to regard other people in other nations to be essentially enslaved by America and having no power of thier own .</p>
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		<title>By: It Has That Nixon/Kennedy Smell To It &#171; Around The Sphere</title>
		<link>http://federalistpaupers.com/index.php/2009/06/19/freidersdorf-v-rihl/comment-page-1/#comment-216344</link>
		<dc:creator>It Has That Nixon/Kennedy Smell To It &#171; Around The Sphere</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Jun 2009 20:49:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://federalistpaupers.com/?p=3947#comment-216344</guid>
		<description>[...] The League hosting a debate between Dan Riehl and Conor Friedersdorf, moderated by Scott H. Payne. A partial transcript is available at Federalist Paupers. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The League hosting a debate between Dan Riehl and Conor Friedersdorf, moderated by Scott H. Payne. A partial transcript is available at Federalist Paupers. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jamie</title>
		<link>http://federalistpaupers.com/index.php/2009/06/19/freidersdorf-v-rihl/comment-page-1/#comment-216343</link>
		<dc:creator>Jamie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Jun 2009 16:34:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://federalistpaupers.com/?p=3947#comment-216343</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m still at loss to figure out when Empire became a pejorative. I think that Dan, Conor and Biggles play into the trap of accepting liberal premises about empire being bad, and thus are forced to defend something that really doesn&#039;t need defending. 

Is America an empire? Economically I&#039;d say definitely - we can assert our economic will around the world almost with impunity (less so thanks to recent reckless spending, and the future looks even dimmer). Are we an military or political empire? This is less clear but I would say that we are a very soft empire as Tom also points out. 

But all this is besides the point. SO WHAT! What matters is if what America brings to the world economically, politically and culturally is a net benefit. I would argue that this is so. Our military bases provide stability. Our culture gives people a taste of the freedoms we enjoy. And our economic might enriches the world.

The Pax Americana has been a good thing for the world. If this is the results of an American Empire then I say &quot;Long live the empire!&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m still at loss to figure out when Empire became a pejorative. I think that Dan, Conor and Biggles play into the trap of accepting liberal premises about empire being bad, and thus are forced to defend something that really doesn&#8217;t need defending. </p>
<p>Is America an empire? Economically I&#8217;d say definitely &#8211; we can assert our economic will around the world almost with impunity (less so thanks to recent reckless spending, and the future looks even dimmer). Are we an military or political empire? This is less clear but I would say that we are a very soft empire as Tom also points out. </p>
<p>But all this is besides the point. SO WHAT! What matters is if what America brings to the world economically, politically and culturally is a net benefit. I would argue that this is so. Our military bases provide stability. Our culture gives people a taste of the freedoms we enjoy. And our economic might enriches the world.</p>
<p>The Pax Americana has been a good thing for the world. If this is the results of an American Empire then I say &#8220;Long live the empire!&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: biggles</title>
		<link>http://federalistpaupers.com/index.php/2009/06/19/freidersdorf-v-rihl/comment-page-1/#comment-216342</link>
		<dc:creator>biggles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Jun 2009 15:58:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://federalistpaupers.com/?p=3947#comment-216342</guid>
		<description>I believe I just did  look beyond that  - by giving you several examples. 
America might be big - but not necessarily bad.
You yanks are such self flagellates.
And yes - I am familiar with Ferguson&#039;s work. Likes the sound of his own voice is one of my reactions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe I just did  look beyond that  &#8211; by giving you several examples.<br />
America might be big &#8211; but not necessarily bad.<br />
You yanks are such self flagellates.<br />
And yes &#8211; I am familiar with Ferguson&#8217;s work. Likes the sound of his own voice is one of my reactions.</p>
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		<title>By: Geoffrey</title>
		<link>http://federalistpaupers.com/index.php/2009/06/19/freidersdorf-v-rihl/comment-page-1/#comment-216341</link>
		<dc:creator>Geoffrey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Jun 2009 15:52:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://federalistpaupers.com/?p=3947#comment-216341</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I would suggest there is little empirical evidence to support your contention apart from the usual Chomsky-esque nonsense about big bad America&lt;/i&gt;

I would suggest looking beyond your Chomsky strawman.  Start by googling &quot;Empire by Consent.&quot;  Maybe check out some of Niall Ferguson&#039;s work.  Empire is a descriptive word, not a pejorative, although the reality it describes is usually (but not always) unpleasant.  An empire that is consented to and enjoyed by its members is still an empire.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I would suggest there is little empirical evidence to support your contention apart from the usual Chomsky-esque nonsense about big bad America</i></p>
<p>I would suggest looking beyond your Chomsky strawman.  Start by googling &#8220;Empire by Consent.&#8221;  Maybe check out some of Niall Ferguson&#8217;s work.  Empire is a descriptive word, not a pejorative, although the reality it describes is usually (but not always) unpleasant.  An empire that is consented to and enjoyed by its members is still an empire.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://federalistpaupers.com/index.php/2009/06/19/freidersdorf-v-rihl/comment-page-1/#comment-216340</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Jun 2009 15:50:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://federalistpaupers.com/?p=3947#comment-216340</guid>
		<description>Biggles,

I&#039;d say that Geoff is quite right to say that we&#039;re an empire (or, at least, acting imperially) and that you&#039;re equally right to point out that it&#039;s a rather soft empire.

Better to be the Koreans than, say, the Mytelines, though both are/were under the influence of an empire.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Biggles,</p>
<p>I&#8217;d say that Geoff is quite right to say that we&#8217;re an empire (or, at least, acting imperially) and that you&#8217;re equally right to point out that it&#8217;s a rather soft empire.</p>
<p>Better to be the Koreans than, say, the Mytelines, though both are/were under the influence of an empire.</p>
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		<title>By: biggles</title>
		<link>http://federalistpaupers.com/index.php/2009/06/19/freidersdorf-v-rihl/comment-page-1/#comment-216339</link>
		<dc:creator>biggles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Jun 2009 15:35:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://federalistpaupers.com/?p=3947#comment-216339</guid>
		<description>Geoffrey - that is a somewhat fatuous argument.  The presence of military bases = empire?  
If that was the case then why does the US leave when asked - e.g. Philippines and recently one of the ex-Soviet states (one of the &#039;stans - Carjackastan or the like).
Most of those military bases are there by mutual consent - look at the ruckus in Korea when Clinton wanted to draw down the troops there.

And since you quote 60 years as your time line - what was arguably the luckiest nation in the aftermath of WWII? - surely Austria where the US occupied one half, forced the Soviets to relinquish their half and there are no troops there today (that I know of) perhaps with the exception of the Marine guards at the Embassy.

Try withdrawing the US forces from Japan and you would soon see how the Japanese feel about that.
Why did Singapore build a naval base specifically to accommodate and allow US Navy vessels (incl for carriers and subs - its quite a complex) free access if the US considered &#039;imperial&#039;?
And on and on. 
I would suggest there is little empirical evidence to support your contention apart from the usual Chomsky-esque nonsense about big bad America</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Geoffrey &#8211; that is a somewhat fatuous argument.  The presence of military bases = empire?<br />
If that was the case then why does the US leave when asked &#8211; e.g. Philippines and recently one of the ex-Soviet states (one of the &#8217;stans &#8211; Carjackastan or the like).<br />
Most of those military bases are there by mutual consent &#8211; look at the ruckus in Korea when Clinton wanted to draw down the troops there.</p>
<p>And since you quote 60 years as your time line &#8211; what was arguably the luckiest nation in the aftermath of WWII? &#8211; surely Austria where the US occupied one half, forced the Soviets to relinquish their half and there are no troops there today (that I know of) perhaps with the exception of the Marine guards at the Embassy.</p>
<p>Try withdrawing the US forces from Japan and you would soon see how the Japanese feel about that.<br />
Why did Singapore build a naval base specifically to accommodate and allow US Navy vessels (incl for carriers and subs &#8211; its quite a complex) free access if the US considered &#8216;imperial&#8217;?<br />
And on and on.<br />
I would suggest there is little empirical evidence to support your contention apart from the usual Chomsky-esque nonsense about big bad America</p>
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		<title>By: Geoffrey</title>
		<link>http://federalistpaupers.com/index.php/2009/06/19/freidersdorf-v-rihl/comment-page-1/#comment-216338</link>
		<dc:creator>Geoffrey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Jun 2009 15:17:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://federalistpaupers.com/?p=3947#comment-216338</guid>
		<description>Dan doesn&#039;t &quot;point out a definition of empire,&quot; he says it &quot;suggests you are growing.&quot;  And has some stuff about invading and taking over other countries.  

This is a pet peeve of mine.  You kind of see this all the time, where someone talks about American empire and someone else dismisses it because we don&#039;t have an emperor or don&#039;t go around annexing other countries.

You don&#039;t have to &lt;i&gt;be&lt;/i&gt; an empire to &lt;i&gt;have&lt;/i&gt; an empire.  And you don&#039;t have to be constantly conquering and expanding, either.  America&#039;s arguably had an empire since the Spanish-American war.  We&#039;ve certainly had one for the past 60 years -- look at a world map of US military bases.  

And if you consider it your right to invade another country to install a friendly government -- even if you&#039;re justified, even if you&#039;re installing a pro-human rights democracy -- you&#039;re acting imperially.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dan doesn&#8217;t &#8220;point out a definition of empire,&#8221; he says it &#8220;suggests you are growing.&#8221;  And has some stuff about invading and taking over other countries.  </p>
<p>This is a pet peeve of mine.  You kind of see this all the time, where someone talks about American empire and someone else dismisses it because we don&#8217;t have an emperor or don&#8217;t go around annexing other countries.</p>
<p>You don&#8217;t have to <i>be</i> an empire to <i>have</i> an empire.  And you don&#8217;t have to be constantly conquering and expanding, either.  America&#8217;s arguably had an empire since the Spanish-American war.  We&#8217;ve certainly had one for the past 60 years &#8212; look at a world map of US military bases.  </p>
<p>And if you consider it your right to invade another country to install a friendly government &#8212; even if you&#8217;re justified, even if you&#8217;re installing a pro-human rights democracy &#8212; you&#8217;re acting imperially.</p>
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